Nikchick ([info]iamnikchick) wrote,
  • Mood: aggravated

Tits and Ass advertising

I visit two roleplaying game sites on a regular basis: RPG.net and EN World. RPG.net is the grand-daddy of the game sites and I've been a regular reader, infrequent poster since its creation, ten years or more... it's been part of my daily online routine for so long I honestly can't remember when precisely it started. I suppose I lose geek points for not being able to recall the precise minute I discovered the site. Oh well. EN World is what Eric Noah's 3rd Edition site morphed into once D&D 3rd Edition launched and Eric retired from the onerous job of moderating the biggest D&D fansite on the internet, and I've been there (in both its forms) for at least five years at this point.

What I want to know is when Tits and Ass advertising took over the banner ads at EN World! Is there some sort of informal T&A Ad contest going on that I don't know about?!

I ask you in advance to pardon this lengthy preamble, but let me be clear: I hate that shit. As a woman who has built a career in the roleplaying game business over the last (holy crap!) NINETEEN years, I have at times been belittled, denigrated, and dismissed based only on my gender, I've worked the booth for the companies I owned only to have some neanderthal walk up and look for any male in the area to talk to (even, let's say, if it's just Ken Hite or some other industry professional utterly unaffiliated with my company who happens to be hanging out behind my booth talking to me), I've been told to "shut up, frigid bitch" by gamer employers whose awkward attempts at romance I've spurned, I've had competitors complain to the men of the company under the mistaken impression that the man was my boss and that they'd be getting me in some sort of trouble because of something I'd said or done that pissed them off, and I have just about zero tolerance for the practice of using "booth babes" who don't have the first idea about the product they're flaunting their bodies for. I'm less judgmental about fantasy illustrations that depict attractive female figures in the context of the settings they're hawking, I don't mind well-rendered paintings of beautiful girls and I've got a pretty broad definition of "appropriate" attire in that context. I dislike being introduced as an after-thought, as "Chris's wife," because I had a career in the game industry several years before Pramas did and I've seen my credibility with strangers evaporate before my eyes after being introduced as 'the wife' because people assume he came first and I'm some sort of sympathy vote or tag-a-long when I was "here" first.

Lately, every day when I visit the EN World front page I'm seeing banner adds that are shamelessly using Tits and Ass to advertise their products. When Avalanche Press did the Tits and Ass thing, they at least had the decency to put their cover babes in chainmail thigh-highs or make the tits and ass somewhat relevant to the setting. Usually, though not always.

Today's D20 advertisers, on the other hand, are barely even trying to stay in bounds (if they're trying at all). It's just Tits and Ass. They're not even trying to dress it up. I log in to the EN World front page and I get treated to this:


or this:


or this:


or this (which is actually saved as "HOOTERBANNER.GIF"!!:


At least this one makes a self-referential statement about advertising with boobies:



After a couple of weeks of this, I finally have to say to my esteemed colleagues: WHAT THE FUCK!? This is the best that you can do? THIS is all you have to entice people to give your product a looksee? TITS? That's what you've got? Thanks guys. Classy.

Thankfully, the RPG.net advertisers haven't felt the need to stoop to straight-up offering titties in their banner ads. Here's hoping the trend holds.
Tags: gaming

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[info]mouseferatu

February 3 2006, 07:40:45 UTC 6 years ago

There have been several threads about this on ENWorld, in the Meta forums. So far, they've all been fairly blah about the whole thing. People ask "What the hell's going on?" but nobody's out-and-out complained.

(I suppose I should have stepped up and done so, since I've known some people found it offensive, but I've just been trying to stay out of the whole thing for the most part. I think I commented once.)

While I honestly doubt it'll do that much good, you might consider expressing your offence there. There are a lot of people who respect you and what you've got to say, and it just might get some attention.

[info]iamnikchick

February 3 2006, 15:56:31 UTC 6 years ago

I've modified my blog post and used it to start a new thread in Meta.

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?p=2895739#post2895739

Ironically enough, "tits" and "titty" are censored words on EN World. You can *show* them, you just can't talk about it. ::roll eyes::

[info]jadasc

February 3 2006, 08:12:27 UTC 6 years ago

Grab a cab, c'mon see the wizard at Park & 73rd

"So I managed to take a sneak peak at my character sheet. For Dexterity, he wrote down '10.' For Appearance? '3.'"

what? I'm the only guy who saw "A Chorus Line"?

[info]mark_argent

February 3 2006, 08:36:02 UTC 6 years ago

I have no words.

[info]unseelie23

February 3 2006, 08:56:29 UTC 6 years ago

Someone might point out that the HOOTERBANNER.GIF features actress Scarlet Johannson (candid taken from the Golden Globes awards, IIRC), and I doubt they have any sort of model release or permission to use that in advertising.

[info]iamnikchick

February 3 2006, 16:16:50 UTC 6 years ago

Not only that, but it's exploiting the incident where Isaac Mizrahi just walked up and grabbed and squeezed her boob, univinted. That's disturbing on a whole different level: this woman did not invite or expect her boob to be grabbed. That's precisely the kind of behavior that men should *not* engage in! Just because you can see them does not mean you get to grab them! "Oooh, pretty titties, gimme gimme," is flat out inappropriate. Using that particular incident to advertise a roleplaying game is crass and grotesque.

Anonymous

6 years ago

[info]sammywol

February 3 2006, 09:18:37 UTC 6 years ago

Sighs! These are times in which being a feminist takes a great deal of energy. Why does it feel like we are moving backwards here?

[info]neverjaunty

February 3 2006, 17:55:26 UTC 6 years ago

We clearly didn't cull the previous generations of idiots thoroughly enough.

[info]pond823

February 3 2006, 10:18:50 UTC 6 years ago

Here are a few banner ad ideas that might make you smile...

"Small cock? You just need more dice."

"Want to get your hands on chainmail glad boobies? Try washing."

"17 undefeatable Feminist NPCs."

"Your not going to do much damage with that magic missle are you?"

[info]hackard

February 3 2006, 12:42:01 UTC 6 years ago

Forgive my rewrite of your last one, but I think it'd be better as "There's not much magic in your missile."

[info]pond823

6 years ago

[info]wyrdo

February 3 2006, 10:57:55 UTC 6 years ago

Part of the problem is the lack of ad-savvy from the RPG sites (my own included - though mine is more a time constraint than a lack of knowledge). You buy your RPG banner advertising by the impression and not the clickthru. If you're paying each time your banner is shown you might do what you can to encourage as many clicks as possible.

If you have to pay for the clicks then you would not want to pay for people to come to your site and look for T&A action.

The Grim Tales banner is a good example of that. It's out of theme. If you want to play a nitty gritty campaign then you're a very different customer to someone interested in The Le's "Unorthodox Cheerleaders" supplements.

[info]bruceb

February 3 2006, 12:24:21 UTC 6 years ago

That's appalling stuff. Thanks for calling it to my attention, Nicole. I'll put in some complaints later today. I've been introducing some MMORPG friends to tabletop play and its world, and this is not the sort of thing I want them to be dealing with. Just because I know they can doesn't mean I want them to, or that they want to, or that they should have to.

I'd setle for a filter to reveal such ads only to those who opt in as long as it were insultingly named, like "Low IQ" or "Life-Impaired".

[info]hackard

February 3 2006, 12:45:50 UTC 6 years ago

*sighs, shakes head sadly*

It's like they don't even care about promoting the quality of their product. "Why should you buy our supplements? Um, well, see ... hey look, pretty blonde girls!" Pathetic.

[info]mind_of_richard

February 3 2006, 14:00:38 UTC 6 years ago

You know, I have been thinking the same thing.

I come from this from another angle, these adds do nothing but perpetrate the myth that RPGs are a boys club, and that no one different need apply.

They are similar to the beer adds shown during most football games, where the product being advertised has nothing to do with the images being shown on the screen.

[info]hackard

February 3 2006, 14:06:43 UTC 6 years ago

They are similar to the beer adds shown during most football games, where the product being advertised has nothing to do with the images being shown on the screen.

What are you talking about? I know every time I pop open a cheap American lite beer, scantily clad busty young women suddenly appear in my living room and dance to classic rock songs.

[info]chadu

February 3 2006, 14:25:36 UTC 6 years ago

(appalled face)

[info]heliograph

February 3 2006, 14:44:18 UTC 6 years ago

Elaine's favorite story is the salesman who asked her if there was a man he could speak with... and she's essentially the third in command at her company. These problems aren't unique to the RPG industry (though they definitely are more pronounced).

A repeated theme in various places lately is that the pornography "style" is becoming an accepted part of mainstream American culture, and I'd suspect that what you're seeing on EnWorld is just a symptom of that.

Avalanche's defense was that their covers were pointed at their target audience. We had endless gales of laughter over the "Pirate Booty" cover, and I have to say my imagination ran wild when they said they were doing a Zeppelin RPG book... the cover paints itself!

What I'd want to know is how successful those ads are in getting click-thrus per exposure. Remember when Mongoose had centerfolds in their games? And where are they now?

But when they'd rather talk to Ken Hite: that's just creepy ;-)

[info]neverjaunty

February 3 2006, 18:42:17 UTC 6 years ago

"Let me speak to a man..."

Many many moons ago, I was helping to run a local gaming convention. Part of my job was to court the miniatures gamers (don't know about now, but back then they regarded RPGs as a bastard, inferior upstart).

I reached one contact's wife and explained why I was calling. She said "You can talk to me about it," so I did. Turns out she was a miniatures person, too, and she was utterly thrilled to speak to someone who took her interest at face value, instead of assuming that as the little wifey she couldn't possibly know anything about minis.

She made sure that not only did we have a whole bunch of miniatures events, but got us a lot of product donated as door prizes and hosted a diorama competition--free.

[info]elissa_carey

February 3 2006, 14:46:50 UTC 6 years ago

an ad-by-ad analysis:

Hmmm, 17 Magic Weapons... is one of them halitosis?
17 Magic Armors: Smiling naked blonde women make *great* shields.
17 Magic Gloves: Human skin is all the rage. Just ask Hannibal Lector.
Grim Tales/Mythic Heroes: Getting your hands on *that* copy would be a tale of mythic proportions. Especially if you plan on using one of your "magic weapons" to get it.
Unorthodox Advertising: I have never seen ads with tits or chainmail before. How unorthodox!

In short, I would like to praise the ad-makers for their outright pandering. Why, without pretty women with large endowments for the boys and lesbian women to stare at, we might think there may be actual content to peruse! We have been warned; move on, people, nothing to see here.

[info]izzylobo

February 3 2006, 14:49:03 UTC 6 years ago

ummm....

wow.

So, I guess I won't be buying products from any of those companies.

(I don't buy from Avalanche either, despite them actually having a few products I might like to own).

Anyone who has seen my art collection (Hey, lady, come up stairs and see my etchings... oops) knows I'm quite fond of feminine pulchritude.

But there's a place. And the main rule - it has to be well-executed.

These ads fail both rules.

Joke em.

[info]eyebeams

February 3 2006, 15:04:02 UTC 6 years ago

Holy crap! I have to admit I didn't notice (my banner-blindspot fu is strong), but yeah: It's like a Do Not Buy referene guide.

My suspicion is that the little trolls behind this read some "internet marketing" literature to look "professional" instead of, say, believing in their product enough to apply a distinct look and feel.

[info]wickedthought

February 3 2006, 15:14:48 UTC 6 years ago

I was talking to an art director once. (No names, no names.) He was trying to defend a cover that had a woman with breasts bigger than her head and a bikini that barely covered them.

"This is ridiculous. You think this actually turns guys on?"

"This is fantasy," he told me. "Of course it does."

"You don't think it will discourage women from picking up our product?"

"No," he said.

"Well," I told him, "if we want women to pick up more product, do we put Fabio on the cover? You know, with this huge, bulging package right between his legs? You think that will attract more women to the hobby?"

He looked me straight in the eye. "Yes," he said.

I gave up.

[info]hackard

February 3 2006, 16:12:54 UTC 6 years ago

And yet, I'd be willing to bet that many straight guys would be VERY turned off by a Mack truck-sized Fabio-package on the cover of their games (or at least not want to take those books out on the subway). So why can't we turn that around and recognize that women feel the same way about their most visible sexual characteristics' being exploited so gratuitously in game art?

It's the old double standard: women are decorative, men aren't.

[info]thededine

February 3 2006, 15:18:20 UTC 6 years ago

The best thing about RPGs is that any moron with a word processor and photoshop can jump into publishing.

On the other hand, the worst thing about RPGs is that any moron with a word processor and photoshop can jump into publishing.

[info]dextra

February 3 2006, 15:25:55 UTC 6 years ago

tee and eh

i must say i'm not overly impressed with the le's choice of images, let alone the hooterbanner.
as for ryan nock's "unorthodox advertising", well, i work for enp and while i'm not excited about the ad, i'd like to stand up in defense of chainmail bikini.
it's a joke product tied in with the armoury line. it pokes fun at fantasy rpg sexist stereotypes. heck, there's feats that give bonuses for having a manly muscled chest and ripped shirt.

this year's funny arsenal tie-in book is sticks and stones. how appropriate...

[info]iamnikchick

February 3 2006, 16:00:05 UTC 6 years ago

Re: tee and eh

Yeah, the EN Publishing ad gets points for being self referential and jokey, but in concert with the actual T&A ads running, it loses a little something.

[info]brand_of_amber

February 3 2006, 16:32:14 UTC 6 years ago

I have to wonder if there is some level (possibly subconcious) at which the logic behind this goes something like: "This is the internet, and the thing that makes the most money on the internet is porn. So if we make it look like porn, we'll get more money."

Cause really, this isn't just one step beyond the Avalanche covers -- this is one step away from fuckmeraw.com.

Deleted comment

[info]thededine

February 3 2006, 18:22:46 UTC 6 years ago

Or a number of click-throughs may be, as I did, to see exactly how sideshow his operation was.

[info]hygelakthedread

February 3 2006, 17:15:45 UTC 6 years ago

That's really just... sad. Stupid, and sad.

I never noticed, though I'm usually on EN World at least two or three times a day. But then, my mind automatically blocks out banners anymore.

I'm the last one who could say anything about boobs or chicks in chainmail, really. Hell, when I had a booth at PentaCon a couple years back, I had Chainmail Girl working my booth. But then, Calye is a gamer, and we were selling her "Amara Wintersword, Woman in Chainmail" Lost Worlds battle book at the booth.

But these banners are simply a cheap, tawdry marketing tactic... Maybe if the banners were selling "Pimps 'n Ho's: The Roleplaying Game" that might be another matter...

[info]neverjaunty

February 3 2006, 18:38:12 UTC 6 years ago

Linked to your post at my real blog.

[info]graveyardgreg

February 4 2006, 02:46:21 UTC 6 years ago

I'm...appalled. Even if I weren't gay, I'd be turned off by these ads. Well, except for the last one, which is funny.

Words fail me, though. Words fail me a lot.

[info]anyeone

February 4 2006, 02:49:15 UTC 6 years ago

You know, I told James Mishler that I'd forgiven him for his comment when he first met me at GTS a few years ago when he said "Oh, so it's not your husband's game company?"

And I have, and I wasn't planning on mentioning the matter again. But I just felt the need to mention it here for purposes of solidarity.

(If you're reading this, James, I'm not trying to pick on you! Really!)

Try not to let it get you down too much.

[info]iamnikchick

February 4 2006, 03:11:40 UTC 6 years ago

Aw, it doesn't so much get me down as remind me that there's still progress to be made. I refuse to just become resigned to sexism and the objectification of my gender, as if that's just my lot in life and there's nothing to be done about it. I'm not trying to be all militant about it, but I don't feel obligated not to call out my supposed peers when they're behaving badly, either. "I like boobies," is not an excuse.

[info]xomec

6 years ago

[info]jadefc

February 4 2006, 15:25:00 UTC 6 years ago

From the front lines

As someone who is, shall we say, 'well endowed', I can say that one of the best groups I've ever gamed with consists of me and four men, two of whom are gay, one who is my husband, and one who actually is a typical gamer geek, but has been taught respect for women (and bless his mother or wife or sisters or whomever it was). I hate being patronized, and I hate people who talk to my chest. Ads like those only encourage it. Hello, the face is up here, those don't talk.

(I will point out that I also don't put my breasts on display, and I'm finding that there are geeks who are sort of expecting that, and when I'm not 'busting out all over', they seem disappointed. I wonder where they came to expect THAT.)
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